Related Prince Iron set information

Sumio Saturday - again

R*ckford35 said: I went down to the shop to see the hype for the new Sumo2. Not one person hitting it in the bay. Not a one. Last year, it was 10 deep, easy. I think that speaks volumes. On an aside note, got to hear some interesting news. I guess both Callaway and Nickent are heading towards a full out fitting system with their special integration system. From what I was told, this WILL BE the way of the future. They will not offer heads with traditional shafts like we see today beyond 2008. Very interesting. They're basically forcing you to buy a shaft and a head from an OEM. TM is going the same route, but their current fitting system is stupid. They sell a head, three shafts (low launch, mid launch and Hi launch) for $1200 to retailers for fitting purposes. Which means, you gotta buy each loft head and all the shafts and weights individually. Gotta love TM. Guy at the shop remember the Geek booth from the show. Getting some world wide attention now. R35

D*nnykos said: just a shame that when the R&A / USGA allowed adjustability, that they didn't stipulate a standardised connection system - so that we, the consumer, could swap shafts / heads between manufacturers. having said all that - the callaway i-Mix system does look pretty awesome.

R*ckford35 said: Quote: Originally Posted by Dannykos just a shame that when the R&A / USGA allowed adjustability, that they didn't stipulate a standardised connection system - so that we, the consumer, could swap shafts / heads between manufacturers. having said all that - the callaway i-Mix system does look pretty awesome. They knew that if they did this, no one would go to it. It's a money making scheme for the OEM's, plain and simple. Tough break for the guys doing clubwork. Most of the big shaft names will get on board with Ping, Cally, TM and Nike and the smaller groups will suffer for a few years and then peter out. I personally hope it doesn't happen, but if every big OEM goes this route, it's pretty much an inevitability. If small shaft groups don't get on board, they're going to severely narrow the group of heads that will still be made for the non-fitting head systems. R35

d*ve. said: Looks like the future is all component then for decent golfers

R*ckford35 said: Quote: Originally Posted by dave. Looks like the future is all component then for decent golfers How do Component companies make it when the big boys are going to end up owning the shaft companies? R35

M*nchesterGolfer said: Quote: Originally Posted by Rockford35 How do Component companies make it when the big boys are going to end up owning the shaft companies? R35 They'll have to produce there own. I'm sure they could set up in China for not too much money.

w*rbirdlover said: Why would small shaft companies die out? Couldn't you "pull" a shaft from the adapter and put another one in it, same as changing shafts in a head? :)

S*ndy said: I called in at Golf Galaxy on the way home today and had forgotten it was the Sumo launch day, but if I'd wanted a go on one in their testing bays I'd have had to join a queue of 9 or 10 people. The big difference this year is that there isn't the novelty of seeing or hitting a square club like there was last year, when going in on launch day was a chance to see something totally new. I imagine they barely got anyone going in to see the new HiBores either, and anyone who wanted to see a square driver will have seen one by now. Everyone seemed to like them and the new sound they make, and the square fairways seemed to be very popular with people hitting them. I'd suspect that most of the people in there were already Nike converts so wanted to see whether an upgrade would make much difference, rather than people trying them out for the first time. FWIW the sound is much improved over the old ones, and the shafts look much nicer than before (no long yellow strip down the back of them) but still not as nice as the Diamana lookalikes that were in the original Sasquatches...

Lyl*G said: Quote: Originally Posted by warbirdlover Couldn't you "pull" a shaft from the adapter and put another one in it, same as changing shafts in a head? :) Not really. Most systems that allow for shaft changes use a proprietary tip piece. This piece is inserted (screwed or snapped) into the specially designed hosel. In order for a shaft to play the way it is designed it has to be cut so that the portion of the shaft that would normally be inside the hosel is removed. This is replaced by the adapter piece. If the shaft were used untrimmed it would play extremely soft and most like snap a swing or two in.

R*ckford35 said: Quote: Originally Posted by LyleG Not really. Most systems that allow for shaft changes use a proprietary tip piece. This piece is inserted (screwed or snapped) into the specially designed hosel. In order for a shaft to play the way it is designed it has to be cut so that the portion of the shaft that would normally be inside the hosel is removed. This is replaced by the adapter piece. If the shaft were used untrimmed it would play extremely soft and most like snap a swing or two in. Yep. Fitting is going to get easier, that's a no brainer. Components are going to suffer as a result. Unfortunate.:( R35

cl*msonhacker said: somebody will find a way around it..

T*pflite_D2 said: ^^^ Yeah its called sticking with what you have now. :laugh:

R*ckford35 said: Quote: Originally Posted by Topflite_D2 ^^^ Yeah its called sticking with what you have now. :laugh: What kind of a ho are you! :laugh: R35

p*ckerfan1 said: I want to see how all of these different interchangable heads and shafts are going to seemlessly interchange on the spot without swingweight and other critical club characteristics being affected. this will never work on a widespread basis...too much uncontrolled variability will result in a worse performing club for all but the most knowledgeable golfers.

Lyl*G said: Quote: Originally Posted by packerfan1 I want to see how all of these different interchangable heads and shafts are going to seemlessly interchange on the spot without swingweight and other critical club characteristics being affected. Swing weight is not a critical club characteristic. I would go as far as to say it is unnecessary to even know with a driver.

D*nnykos said: spine aligning might be problematic?

B*gnose said: Quote: Originally Posted by Rockford35 How do Component companies make it when the big boys are going to end up owning the shaft companies? R35 I can see your concern, but just as a rhetorical question, if this was really a huge worry (the club making companies owning the shaft making companies), why hasn't it happened yet? Why hasn't a Callaway bought a Grafalloy or Aldila or UST? I can see maybe individual shafts being only available through certain companies, but that happens now once in a while. What I see as most likely is that when you order a shaft from a retailer, then you have to pick what adapter you want installed on the end of it. But, I suspect that you'll still be able to get what shaft you want -- I don't see any advantage to the shaft companies to become married to any one OEM. In a larger note, I also think that unless some universal adapter system comes out reasonably quick, people aren't going to put up with that nonsense. I think sales will lag because while it may only be a tiny percent of golfers who like to switch shafts and whatnot, they represent a much larger portion of the total sales of shafts. And, if they want to get those sales of shafts back, they are going to have to find someway to make it easier.

T*pflite_D2 said: Quote: Originally Posted by Rockford35 What kind of a ho are you! :laugh: R35 :laugh: haha I'm sorry I don't know what I was thinking. Find your way around your interchangeable shafts. :laugh:

*xtremeVFT03 said: yeah the shop near me has the i-mix coming in at the mid to end of this month got to check it out :)

*zra76 said: I think the interchangable shafts are pretty stupid. It's not that hard to change a shaft anyway if you want to do it. I can see it for fitting purposes but why in a head once you've bought the head and had a shaft put in that fits your swing? Like the TM driver with the 3 shafs coming out. All 3 fit totally different swing profiles. If 1 is the "right" one then the other two won't be, it's that simple. So say I buy one of these heads and want a Diamana. I have to buy that shaft from the head manufacturer with that tip on it? I don't think this is going to fly to well with the shaft manufacturers, they won't be making as big a profit margin having the OEM's stepping in as a "middle man", which will be a necessity since they have the tips for the shafts.

T*pflite_D2 said: Quote: Originally Posted by extremeVFT03 yeah the shop near me has the i-mix coming in at the mid to end of this month got to check it out :) My shop is a little behind they didn't even have the CGB max drivers yet. Although they did have a interchangeable shaft system in a Ping putter I think it was.

R*ckford35 said: Quote: Originally Posted by Bignose I can see your concern, but just as a rhetorical question, if this was really a huge worry (the club making companies owning the shaft making companies), why hasn't it happened yet? Why hasn't a Callaway bought a Grafalloy or Aldila or UST? I can see maybe individual shafts being only available through certain companies, but that happens now once in a while. What I see as most likely is that when you order a shaft from a retailer, then you have to pick what adapter you want installed on the end of it. But, I suspect that you'll still be able to get what shaft you want -- I don't see any advantage to the shaft companies to become married to any one OEM. . Up until recently, most shafts were either proprietary ("made for") or made by the OEM's themselves. It was quite obvious that stock shafts couldn't cut it, so they've had to pony up and pay for shafts outside their doors. Does it not make good business sense to have your own shaft making facilities that are developing shafts for the changing market? It does to me. You heard it here first. Grafalloy or Aldila, one of those "mainstream" shaft companies will be bought by one of the big boys soon enough. The last one to go will be True Temper/Rifle, as they are owned by Black and Decker and are small peanuts to them. Quote: Originally Posted by Bignose In a larger note, I also think that unless some universal adapter system comes out reasonably quick, people aren't going to put up with that nonsense. I think sales will lag because while it may only be a tiny percent of golfers who like to switch shafts and whatnot, they represent a much larger portion of the total sales of shafts. And, if they want to get those sales of shafts back, they are going to have to find someway to make it easier. If you want new clubs, you have to go to the adaptor system - or - you don't get new clubs. My guess is that the technology change will come to a halt (.830 COR is .830 COR), but asthetics always reels them in. Check any bag on this site, more than likely 90% of us are playing drivers less than 3 years old. They will survive, the little guys won't. R35

B*gnose said: Rock, again I understand the logic. But, you didn't really address my first question. If it is/was such good business sense, why hasn't it happened before? Or has it happened before, and I just don't know about it? Has a big OEM tried and failed to buy a shaft company? I don't know... But, agian, I mean, didn't it make just as much good sense last year or three years ago? And if not, why not?

R*ckford35 said: Nakashim has had their hosel system for a few years now. Until then, there wasn't the same focus as their is today on ease of fitting. This is where this system will excel. As for OEM's buying shaft companies, I don't know if this has happened in the past as "aftermarket shafts" weren't a big option until about 2005. I'm thinking that most OEM's signed 3 year deals with these guys for proprietary shafts and aftermarket, which made financial sense buying in bulk and offering them as decent and attractive upgrade prices for the end user. I mean, if you can get the Nike OEM Daimana or a VS Proto, which one are you gonna grab? This focus on aftermarket stuff is a recent phenomenon. The numbers of shafts have grown considerably in the last 3 years, so much so that alot of groups are scaling back their offerings for the coming years because they can't compete with the OEM's offering shafts at reduced rates or even swap with the "made for" versions. It'll be interesting to see what the general public does initially, and compare that to the year following to see if they do give in. R35

d*ve. said: I agree with your concern, but I think the componet companies will always find shafts to go in and there will always be a place for them in golf. But it just depends on how these new clubs play, for the vast majority of players I bet they work, they will soften the flex and therefore many mnay club players will finally have a shaft they can hit. They would just annoy me, just knowing they are what they are, it would always be on my mind.